Curse

Navaros · Nov 22, 2008, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

I'm all ears.

How could this get abused in PvE? What, 8 people will enter mission, and 7 of these pugs would report guy 8th for leeching? And they get what.. satisfaction that person 8th doesnt get mission done?

Can someone tell me how this would get abused other than "im sure it would get abused"? We're talking about PUGs here.

It would get abused by horrible PUG players illegitmately voting good non-leeching players as leechers just because the good players told them to stop playing horribly.

Like you said: "We're talking about PUGS here". Which means two things almost certainly:

1. The party will consist of a great many horrible players.
2. Those horrible players will hate being told what to do to stop playing horribly (leeroying into mobs ahead of the rest of the party, etc.)

Therefore they will try to 'penalize' the good player, via illegitmate leech votes, simply for calling them out on their horrible playing which is sabotaging the party.

Also, it probably wouldn't be 8 players in party. It might be 3 players, 2 bad, 1 good, and 5 heroes. So the 1 good player tells the 2 bad players what to do to stop fubaring the party, then they vote him as a leecher because they don't wanna hear that.

upier · Nov 22, 2008, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

The report system is horrible. If this came to PvE it would be worse.

"Brb gotta do something will only be a min"
*1 min and 10 seconds later*
"OMG HES LATE HES NOT COMING BACK OMG LEECHER OMG"
*Report x7*
*20 seconds later*
"Hey sorry back.... wtf?"

You can't trust the population of GW with report -_-;

OMG so it REALLY is PvP players that are destroying PvP!
I mean - given your example, PvE players would automatically report abuse! Yet PvP players almost never do! I played tons of Aspy and very rarely did even the most regular leechers get more then my report. The other guys just don't care.
So it seems that leeching in PvP could simply be fixed by acting like PvE players - be more into what is good for the game!
Absolutely!

cellardweller · Nov 23, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

The report facility for leaching is only needed in pvp because of RA/JQ/FA - there is no equivilent pve area where that doesn't allow you to select your own team of non-leechers.

Shadowmoon · Nov 23, 2008, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Feature is needed, I only wish it would kick the person is the majority of players report him as a leacher. Yeah it could be abuse, but i can't even get people who are clearly leaching in ra reported by my 2 other teammate. What are the odds one person could sway 4 other people to report them for no reason.

Jaran Cell · Nov 23, 2008, 04:53 AM // 04:53

I don't really think reporting in PvE is needed. As has been said you are able to handpick every member of your team and if you'r good at this then leechers should be a very rare problem.

However saying that it shouldn't be implemented due to the risk of abuse is a pretty bad argument.
That's like saying that you shouldn't have jail sentences just becouse innocent people might end up serving time.

Qing Guang · Nov 23, 2008, 05:00 AM // 05:00

I agree that it'd probably just be abused, mostly for the circumstance described previously. Sometimes real life just intervenes, and you have to get off for a sec. That's not leeching, unless you leave for >10 minutes.

Quite frankly, when was the last time you encountered a leecher (excluding "benign" leechers like in the Raptor Farm) in PvE at all? I've only seen one once, and that was over a year ago. He wasn't even really a leecher, just a griefer - in the second Factions att. point quest he kept leading the Kirin in the wrong direction so we couldn't dispel the miasma. Our solution? Map back to Seitung Harbor, put the guy on DND, and start again, no biggie.

As has been stated before, the reason you can report leechers in PvP is because sometimes you can't choose your teammates, and it's not as simple as just mapping back to town. I could almost understand having this in PvE for high-end areas where you've made some progress and only just then has he started to leech, except... why on earth would you be PUGing in a high-end area? I'm normally an advocate of PUGs (they really are underrated - it's basically a choice between a known level of stupidity for H/H or a grab bag of the entire range of intelligence for a PUG, and I'll take the grab bag for mishes, thanks), but running with one in anything except NM is ill-advised, IMO. Get some guildies or H/H it; don't rely on some random person you pick up for HM or Elite Missions. So I really can't see the point to this at all.

Amy Awien · Nov 23, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

... I see that most people here go afk and leech themselves, or are criminals of other kind, ....

You loose.

/closethread

viper11025 · Nov 23, 2008, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

Just a thought:

They should make a reputation system for GW2. Reputation points can be earned for completing missions, quests and vanquishing in a party! However, if someone leeches, that person loses more reputation points than he/she gains for completing a few missions, quests and vanquishing. When in an outpost the reputation is shown when you click the persons name and you know if it's a reliable person. If someone disconnects permanently it's bad luck. He/she probably won't disconnect that often to get into the red zone for leeching, leaving etc.

If noone CAN SEE it then, ok..........>.>
But id be sad for new players to get the "We require rep rank 5" people to get in there way.....-cough- HA all over agian.

Chocobo1 · Nov 23, 2008, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

OMG so it REALLY is PvP players that are destroying PvP!
I mean - given your example, PvE players would automatically report abuse! Yet PvP players almost never do! I played tons of Aspy and very rarely did even the most regular leechers get more then my report. The other guys just don't care.
So it seems that leeching in PvP could simply be fixed by acting like PvE players - be more into what is good for the game!
Absolutely!

Uh I don't think you understand what I was trying to say. The only time the report function is ever used is in stupid circumstances like the one I described. No one bothers reporting in low end PvP because most of the people don't know how to work it and the ones that do know they will just get dishonoured for being the only one reporting.

I hate to break it to you but most Pug's are formed with a huge amount of rageful players and stupid players. I'm not saying all of them are, just most of them. They want a mission to exactly the way they have done it in the past, or they have no idea what they are doing and are running frenzy/mending.

Do I really need to keep going or do you get the picture? Feel free to post some odd almost sarcastic toned reply though <3

Shasgaliel · Nov 23, 2008, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

It would get abused by horrible PUG players illegitmately voting good non-leeching players as leechers just because the good players told them to stop playing horribly.

Like you said: "We're talking about PUGS here". Which means two things almost certainly:

1. The party will consist of a great many horrible players.
2. Those horrible players will hate being told what to do to stop playing horribly (leeroying into mobs ahead of the rest of the party, etc.)

Therefore they will try to 'penalize' the good player, via illegitmate leech votes, simply for calling them out on their horrible playing which is sabotaging the party.

Also, it probably wouldn't be 8 players in party. It might be 3 players, 2 bad, 1 good, and 5 heroes. So the 1 good player tells the 2 bad players what to do to stop fubaring the party, then they vote him as a leecher because they don't wanna hear that.

Since when good players still pug? Even if there are some masochists still there, by joining the pug they asking for trouble already. I do not see this possibility you mentioned as a probable also from another reason.

If the person gets reported by all party members it means there is really something more than him just providing instructions....Usually it is him calling names or threatening to leave unless they do as he/she asks. I have never met people getting angry about build and game advice given in a POLITE way.

upier · Nov 23, 2008, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Uh I don't think you understand what I was trying to say. The only time the report function is ever used is in stupid circumstances like the one I described. No one bothers reporting in low end PvP because most of the people don't know how to work it and the ones that do know they will just get dishonoured for being the only one reporting.

I hate to break it to you but most Pug's are formed with a huge amount of rageful players and stupid players. I'm not saying all of them are, just most of them. They want a mission to exactly the way they have done it in the past, or they have no idea what they are doing and are running frenzy/mending.

Do I really need to keep going or do you get the picture? Feel free to post some odd almost sarcastic toned reply though <3

So how different is the stupidity described here compared the stupidity in the low end PvP?
The reason why there is no need to for a leeching report in PvE is simple - the one in PvP already isn't working. So why spread a flawed system?

IXI Nine IXI · Nov 23, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Hey sorry I'm tardy to the epic thread party.

Helpful Hint: Don't pug missions with the lvl 5 monk named alifgjha lakjfd.

Servant of Kali · Nov 24, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

Since when good players still pug?

Yes, wow, I'm sorry I tried playing a multi-player online game with more-player online. I guess I shouldve just installed Morrowind or something

I know PUGing is a risk, but there's a way to reduce risk = report. All arguments against in this thread are ridiculous.

As upier said - you dont get many reports. Get real. I play FA. You need 10 minutes wait time to get players report someone, and even then most of them might not. What the hell are you all talking about, that if you're gone for 1 min 7 people will report you? Yeah, and tomorrow you'll gonna win a lottery. And if you're gone for 10min because of IRL, you deserve to be reported. Just close GW if you need to quit, OK. But dont leech.

Shasgaliel · Nov 24, 2008, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Yes, wow, I'm sorry I tried playing a multi-player online game with more-player online. I guess I shouldve just installed Morrowind or something

There was a thread asking for adding a possibility of having 7 heroes. Hundreds of people were claiming they do not and will not PUG anymore. They also refused to play Morrowind instead... So I am still wandering who is now still pugging on GWG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

I know PUGing is a risk, but there's a way to reduce risk = report. All arguments against in this thread are ridiculous.

Maybe because people against it see themselves as being at potential risk of being reported? I would not be surprised. The thread "have you ever scammed" hit quite a few pages....

Anyway I hope this reporting thing will be implemented. I am quite sick of constant adding names to my ignore list.

Amy Awien · Nov 24, 2008, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

... All arguments against in this thread are ridiculous. ...

There is little doubt that your argument is the ridiculous one when it boils down to "if you speak against my idea you are a criminal".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

... And if you're gone for 10min because of IRL, you deserve to be reported.

Real life exist and takes priority for most people. If you want this report feature because you want to force others to drop their lives to accommodate your gaming needs then that is more of an argument against such a feature then anything said so far.

A /report in PvE will only give the people who believe the world should be about them the opportunity to grief other players. Consequently such a /report will push even more experienced people away from participating in PuG's because they can do better and with less hassle and risk when they use H&H.

upier · Nov 24, 2008, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Real life exist and takes priority for most people. If you want this report feature because you want to force others to drop their lives to accommodate your gaming needs then that is more of an argument against such a feature then anything said so far.

What you are asking is for other players to take into account your life.
If other players do not want to do so - because they do not need to do so - you should leave. If you can't play (thus contribute to the team) - there is no point in you being there.
There is pretty much always time for "crap, door, brb!". And if there isn't - well then, just close the game.

If you can't deal with that - play with h/h.

Shadowhaze · Nov 24, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

It is annoying and it's too bad nothing can be done about it. Just because you choose your team in PvE doesn't mean you don't run into losers that leech and do other things. In those cases, I might choose to leave and ask the others to as well and restart something. It annoys me to do something while someone else sits on their bum and gets benefit.

Mooky · Nov 24, 2008, 12:08 PM // 12:08

There is such an easy fix to this. First i call it a blacklist, i write names down in a notebook for people i will never play with again and i write down their guild tag. I dont pug with anyone from their guild either because if you have a leecher in your guild then that behaviour must be acceptable so i dont want anyone in your guild in my party. So when i *have* to pug because im too impatient to wait for so many people to get online to do a particular activity. I have a system that is slowly detering away leechers from my groups. Also alot of the people i play with have said blacklists so collectively theres a lovely black book of noted leechers.

Also i agree that the pvp system is terrible, they get dishonurable for 10 minutes (i think it is, dont know never had) and then they can go back on their merely leeching way? I might be wrong like i said never been reported for leeching. Still its a terrible system because ive been in parties where friends have reported other friends just for laughs.

There is no perfect system, you will always have leechers, you just have to work with what you have

Shasgaliel · Nov 24, 2008, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooky

There is such an easy fix to this. First i call it a blacklist, i write names down in a notebook for people i will never play with again and i write down their guild tag. I dont pug with anyone from their guild either because if you have a leecher in your guild then that behaviour must be acceptable so i dont want anyone in your guild in my party.

You realize that guild tags are not unique. In this case you not only avoid people from the same guild but also all innocent people who happened to have the same tag...

Servant of Kali · Nov 24, 2008, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

There was a thread asking for adding a possibility of having 7 heroes.

Yup, and I'm one of those who support 7 heroes. Although, I haven't said I will never PUG: )

Quote:

Maybe because people against it see themselves as being at potential risk of being reported? I would not be surprised. The thread "have you ever scammed" hit quite a few pages....

Exactly. Leechers defend leechers. There is no non-leecher or no-potential-leecher who will defend leechers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

There is little doubt that your argument is the ridiculous one when it boils down to "if you speak against my idea you are a criminal".

If you support criminals you have criminal mentality.
If you support saints, there has to be something saintish in you, otherwise you would not.

It's really that simple. You can't defend a criminal and say you're not at least a potential one yourself. It's like people being against some punishments, why, because they know they might end up as a criminal so it's better to be prepared.

Quote:

Real life exist and takes priority for most people. If you want this report feature because you want to force others to drop their lives to accommodate your gaming needs then that is more of an argument against such a feature then anything said so far.

Flawed argument.

If someone wants IRL then take it, but when I want to play a game I want to play a game. Don't give me the "you have no life" when I beat you in PvP. And don't give me "I have life" when you leech in my mission ok?

Get this
When you play GW it IS YOUR REAL LIFE. At that moment. It is not separate irrelevant thing. Whatever you focus on is your real life. If you want your real life to consist of not playing games, then dont come to GW. It's that simple. But if you do come into GW, then have some consideration towards your teammates, or simply play with heroes and henchies.

Now get this
Leeching report mechanism is not meant to punish those who have to run to work or get to some accident. Get that into your head. If you have some IRL obligation or emergency you can CLOSE GW it's that simple. You dont need to leech. And this is a thread about leeching, not who-had-more-IRL-emergencies.
If you get leeching report and dont get mission reward or get blocked from doing PvE for 10 minutes, well guess what - YOU HAVE IRL! Good luck, sayonara, and enjoy! You don't need to be in GW 24/7, you have life! Unlike 99% of us here who dont. We see only 0100011001010.

I am tired of people who use real life as an excuse for their incompetence in PvP, and for their carelessness towards other players in PvE

Quote:

Consequently such a /report will push even more experienced people away from participating in PuG's because they can do better and with less hassle and risk

We ALREADY can do better without PUGs but we still PUG.

Geez. My head hurts, I need to read some smart book to purify my brain.

ps: I know you did not understand my message so let's me repeat it third time:

1. I dont care for your IRL. Do you understand this? If I play a mission mission is my IRL. And IRL of everyone who plays the mission. If you have baby crying then
a) use condom next time
b) get used to it. Babies cry.
b) dont play mission, you obviously have IRL so take care of it
c) play with heroes and henchies
d) close GW, but dont leech. We will still be mad for you being so careless for abandoning us, but you wont leech and wont be reported for leeching
e) take it like a man and be reported, dont get mission reward, and stay blocked from PvE for.. i dunno 10 minutes. Remember, you have IRL, so this is totally irrelevant to you. You could be blocked from GW for a year and it would still be irrelevant to you because you have IRL.
f) you can stay at the beginning of the mission and type us nice messages of how you have IRL, so you can grief us, leech, insult us, flame, curse, biatch, abandon, aggro 3 mobs so we die etc.. because you have IRL and abstract fictional online players are irrelevant.

Now, I know you still did not understand, so let me repeat for the fourth time:
Get a life. Stop playing GW. It's bad for you, it's bad for us.